Comments on: Heller: Good for the Dems? http://www.urbanagora.com/2008/06/heller-good-for-the-dems.html An exchange of ideas from thinkers spanning the spectrum Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:26:43 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2 hourly 1 By: Brian http://www.urbanagora.com/2008/06/heller-good-for-the-dems.html/comment-page-1#comment-7225 Brian Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:50:00 +0000 http://www.bridgeportstudios.com/urbanagora/?p=862#comment-7225 The other thing that went unadressed is whether the 2nd amendment is incorporated into the 14th and thus applies to the states. It will be interesting to see how conservative anti-incorporation types and liberal pro-incorporation types handle that when it comes to a right to bear arms. The other thing that went unadressed is whether the 2nd amendment is incorporated into the 14th and thus applies to the states. It will be interesting to see how conservative anti-incorporation types and liberal pro-incorporation types handle that when it comes to a right to bear arms.

]]> By: Josh's friend http://www.urbanagora.com/2008/06/heller-good-for-the-dems.html/comment-page-1#comment-7224 Josh's friend Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:18:00 +0000 http://www.bridgeportstudios.com/urbanagora/?p=862#comment-7224 I agree. I doubt if the majority swings to the left they'd overrule Heller. Dem senators harped on stare decisis with both Roberts and Alito. I don't think you can support a nominee that supports the selective application of stare decisis (eg apply it in Roe, don't apply it in Heller)<br/><br/>Another interesting point about Heller though is that the majority opinion does not identify the level of scrutiny to apply to laws that regulate the right to bear arms. Scalia even discusses this (because Breyer notes it in his dissent) and basically says, "yeah we don't decide that now, but we'll get around to it in the future."<br/><br/>Crazy stuff. I agree. I doubt if the majority swings to the left they’d overrule Heller. Dem senators harped on stare decisis with both Roberts and Alito. I don’t think you can support a nominee that supports the selective application of stare decisis (eg apply it in Roe, don’t apply it in Heller)

Another interesting point about Heller though is that the majority opinion does not identify the level of scrutiny to apply to laws that regulate the right to bear arms. Scalia even discusses this (because Breyer notes it in his dissent) and basically says, “yeah we don’t decide that now, but we’ll get around to it in the future.”

Crazy stuff.

]]> By: Josh's friend http://www.urbanagora.com/2008/06/heller-good-for-the-dems.html/comment-page-1#comment-7948 Josh's friend Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:18:00 +0000 http://www.bridgeportstudios.com/urbanagora/?p=862#comment-7948 I agree. I doubt if the majority swings to the left they'd overrule Heller. Dem senators harped on stare decisis with both Roberts and Alito. I don't think you can support a nominee that supports the selective application of stare decisis (eg apply it in Roe, don't apply it in Heller)<br/><br/>Another interesting point about Heller though is that the majority opinion does not identify the level of scrutiny to apply to laws that regulate the right to bear arms. Scalia even discusses this (because Breyer notes it in his dissent) and basically says, "yeah we don't decide that now, but we'll get around to it in the future."<br/><br/>Crazy stuff. I agree. I doubt if the majority swings to the left they’d overrule Heller. Dem senators harped on stare decisis with both Roberts and Alito. I don’t think you can support a nominee that supports the selective application of stare decisis (eg apply it in Roe, don’t apply it in Heller)

Another interesting point about Heller though is that the majority opinion does not identify the level of scrutiny to apply to laws that regulate the right to bear arms. Scalia even discusses this (because Breyer notes it in his dissent) and basically says, “yeah we don’t decide that now, but we’ll get around to it in the future.”

Crazy stuff.

]]> By: Josh's friend http://www.urbanagora.com/2008/06/heller-good-for-the-dems.html/comment-page-1#comment-8620 Josh's friend Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:18:00 +0000 http://www.bridgeportstudios.com/urbanagora/?p=862#comment-8620 I agree. I doubt if the majority swings to the left they'd overrule Heller. Dem senators harped on stare decisis with both Roberts and Alito. I don't think you can support a nominee that supports the selective application of stare decisis (eg apply it in Roe, don't apply it in Heller)<br/><br/>Another interesting point about Heller though is that the majority opinion does not identify the level of scrutiny to apply to laws that regulate the right to bear arms. Scalia even discusses this (because Breyer notes it in his dissent) and basically says, "yeah we don't decide that now, but we'll get around to it in the future."<br/><br/>Crazy stuff. I agree. I doubt if the majority swings to the left they’d overrule Heller. Dem senators harped on stare decisis with both Roberts and Alito. I don’t think you can support a nominee that supports the selective application of stare decisis (eg apply it in Roe, don’t apply it in Heller)

Another interesting point about Heller though is that the majority opinion does not identify the level of scrutiny to apply to laws that regulate the right to bear arms. Scalia even discusses this (because Breyer notes it in his dissent) and basically says, “yeah we don’t decide that now, but we’ll get around to it in the future.”

Crazy stuff.

]]> By: Brian http://www.urbanagora.com/2008/06/heller-good-for-the-dems.html/comment-page-1#comment-7221 Brian Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:27:00 +0000 http://www.bridgeportstudios.com/urbanagora/?p=862#comment-7221 I should note in regard to my previous comment that I don't EXPECT Heller to get overruled. Even if the court shifts to the left, I very much anticipate them respecting the precedent that Heller sets and just applying its standard for what a "reasonable" regulation is a bit more broadly than conservatives might. If they DID overrule Heller, however, it would be awfully interesting to see how that would affect things politically. I should note in regard to my previous comment that I don’t EXPECT Heller to get overruled. Even if the court shifts to the left, I very much anticipate them respecting the precedent that Heller sets and just applying its standard for what a “reasonable” regulation is a bit more broadly than conservatives might. If they DID overrule Heller, however, it would be awfully interesting to see how that would affect things politically.

]]> By: Ragnar http://www.urbanagora.com/2008/06/heller-good-for-the-dems.html/comment-page-1#comment-7217 Ragnar Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:13:00 +0000 http://www.bridgeportstudios.com/urbanagora/?p=862#comment-7217 Only delusional liberals could spin the NRA's biggest victory into a castration. This decision gives the NRA more power than ever. It was beginning to look like the NRA's darkest hour. The country is slipping further and further to the left. The frontrunner for president is a confirmed antigun fruitcake, the Supreme Court has just handed down several decisions that are so left wing it is frightening, and the Republican brand is badly tarnished. Yet from the abyss the NRA snatches the biggest victory for gun owners in the history of the country. Already Pelosi and her happy band of idiots are crying foul and looking for a loophole to allow the DC (and other) Gun Bans to stand. The Brady Group, Move On.org and others will continue to try to rob us of our rights, and as always the NRA will be there to oppose them. Stronger, More Resolute, and finally, Vindicated. I wish our president, Mr. Heston, could have lived to see this day. Can I have a big "HELL YAAH!!!!" Only delusional liberals could spin the NRA’s biggest victory into a castration. This decision gives the NRA more power than ever. It was beginning to look like the NRA’s darkest hour. The country is slipping further and further to the left. The frontrunner for president is a confirmed antigun fruitcake, the Supreme Court has just handed down several decisions that are so left wing it is frightening, and the Republican brand is badly tarnished. Yet from the abyss the NRA snatches the biggest victory for gun owners in the history of the country. Already Pelosi and her happy band of idiots are crying foul and looking for a loophole to allow the DC (and other) Gun Bans to stand. The Brady Group, Move On.org and others will continue to try to rob us of our rights, and as always the NRA will be there to oppose them. Stronger, More Resolute, and finally, Vindicated. I wish our president, Mr. Heston, could have lived to see this day. Can I have a big “HELL YAAH!!!!”

]]> By: Brian http://www.urbanagora.com/2008/06/heller-good-for-the-dems.html/comment-page-1#comment-7215 Brian Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:48:00 +0000 http://www.bridgeportstudios.com/urbanagora/?p=862#comment-7215 Josh's Friend,<br/><br/>I totally agree that Democrats aren't gonna campaign against the decision and are gonna do exactly what you recommend. I'm just saying, even with that being the case, Republicans can still make the argument. And in all honesty, it's probably an accurate argument. Not that a Democratic president is gonna go looking for somebody who will overturn Heller, but just that the sort of nominee a Democrat is going to appoint is likely going to be the type of justice who will agree with the dissent and not the majority in Heller. <br/><br/>Where things will get really politically dicey for Democrats is if the above turns out to be true and this decision gets overturned based on the key vote of a future Democratic appointment. Josh’s Friend,

I totally agree that Democrats aren’t gonna campaign against the decision and are gonna do exactly what you recommend. I’m just saying, even with that being the case, Republicans can still make the argument. And in all honesty, it’s probably an accurate argument. Not that a Democratic president is gonna go looking for somebody who will overturn Heller, but just that the sort of nominee a Democrat is going to appoint is likely going to be the type of justice who will agree with the dissent and not the majority in Heller.

Where things will get really politically dicey for Democrats is if the above turns out to be true and this decision gets overturned based on the key vote of a future Democratic appointment.

]]> By: Josh's friend http://www.urbanagora.com/2008/06/heller-good-for-the-dems.html/comment-page-1#comment-7214 Josh's friend Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:16:00 +0000 http://www.bridgeportstudios.com/urbanagora/?p=862#comment-7214 Brian -- that's an astute point. However, I doubt (or maybe just hope) democrats won't campaign to overturn Heller like Republicans campaign to overturn Roe. It would be a politically boneheaded strategy for just the reason you describe.<br/><br/>My advice to the party: accept it. It's over. Lets fight about policy now. Lets fight about making gun ownership safe. Forget about arguing over whether the right exists because (1) it apparently does, and (2) that plays right into the republicans' hands. Brian — that’s an astute point. However, I doubt (or maybe just hope) democrats won’t campaign to overturn Heller like Republicans campaign to overturn Roe. It would be a politically boneheaded strategy for just the reason you describe.

My advice to the party: accept it. It’s over. Lets fight about policy now. Lets fight about making gun ownership safe. Forget about arguing over whether the right exists because (1) it apparently does, and (2) that plays right into the republicans’ hands.

]]> By: Josh's friend http://www.urbanagora.com/2008/06/heller-good-for-the-dems.html/comment-page-1#comment-7947 Josh's friend Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:16:00 +0000 http://www.bridgeportstudios.com/urbanagora/?p=862#comment-7947 Brian -- that's an astute point. However, I doubt (or maybe just hope) democrats won't campaign to overturn Heller like Republicans campaign to overturn Roe. It would be a politically boneheaded strategy for just the reason you describe.<br/><br/>My advice to the party: accept it. It's over. Lets fight about policy now. Lets fight about making gun ownership safe. Forget about arguing over whether the right exists because (1) it apparently does, and (2) that plays right into the republicans' hands. Brian — that’s an astute point. However, I doubt (or maybe just hope) democrats won’t campaign to overturn Heller like Republicans campaign to overturn Roe. It would be a politically boneheaded strategy for just the reason you describe.

My advice to the party: accept it. It’s over. Lets fight about policy now. Lets fight about making gun ownership safe. Forget about arguing over whether the right exists because (1) it apparently does, and (2) that plays right into the republicans’ hands.

]]> By: Josh's friend http://www.urbanagora.com/2008/06/heller-good-for-the-dems.html/comment-page-1#comment-8619 Josh's friend Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:16:00 +0000 http://www.bridgeportstudios.com/urbanagora/?p=862#comment-8619 Brian -- that's an astute point. However, I doubt (or maybe just hope) democrats won't campaign to overturn Heller like Republicans campaign to overturn Roe. It would be a politically boneheaded strategy for just the reason you describe.<br/><br/>My advice to the party: accept it. It's over. Lets fight about policy now. Lets fight about making gun ownership safe. Forget about arguing over whether the right exists because (1) it apparently does, and (2) that plays right into the republicans' hands. Brian — that’s an astute point. However, I doubt (or maybe just hope) democrats won’t campaign to overturn Heller like Republicans campaign to overturn Roe. It would be a politically boneheaded strategy for just the reason you describe.

My advice to the party: accept it. It’s over. Lets fight about policy now. Lets fight about making gun ownership safe. Forget about arguing over whether the right exists because (1) it apparently does, and (2) that plays right into the republicans’ hands.

]]>