The Great Ira Carmen
by Katie • May 18th, 2008 at 4:19 pm • 27 comments
If you are a U of I alum, chances are you’ve heard of the name “Ira Carmen.” He is a legend on the Urbana campus, at least in the Political Science Department. A ripe young 73, the man still runs three miles a day and regularly reminds students of his superior fitness level. He teaches various undergraduate Constitutional Law classes and a few seminars, including his specialty: Genetics and Politics (which Billy and I are taking in the Fall).
For those of you not lucky enough to attend a Carmen class, let me give you a glimpse of his one-act-show. Picture a small Jewish man with somewhat unkempt white hair wearing a neutral-colored sport coat and skinny tie. He stands at the front of the class, sometimes behind a podium, sometimes gesticulating wildly inches from the front row. He glances periodically at a yellow legal pad while lecturing about Supreme Court decisions, always including the Carmen opinion.
Known for his wit and clever remarks, he never ceases to entertain. A few Urbanagora contributors and former-students asked me to record some of his quotes from the past semester. Here are a few of my favorites:
Discussing Roe v. Wade: “I have sufficient wisdom to remember the urge to fornicate… do it at a rock concert! Don’t do it on the Supreme Court and offend my sensibilities!”
Discussing his top ten list of women (which he never actually revealed): “None of the women from your generation make my list… women of my generation knew how to act, how to dress. [Falsetto voice] ‘I want to run a corporation!’ You can run a goddamn corporation, but you’re not making my list!”
“You are moving toward elite status, and I ought to know because I am an elitist. You are moving toward elite status because you have had this opportunity to take this class! There are really good people on this campus and I’m one of them!”
“You can be brain dead at 70 and brain dead at 20. No? Consider the people you know that are brain dead.”
Stopping mid-lecture and looking out the window at a man mowing the lawn: “What’s this noise? There’s always noise on this campus interrupting my thoughts. There’s always construction going on. As if better buildings make for better instruction. I can teach you in a shit hole! We are in a shit hole!” (A few minutes later, stops mid-sentence) “I’ll out-shout that bastard!”
Discussing his old age: “My y-chromosome shrivels, thankfully not in plain view. [Pause] I won’t go any further than that.”
“Obama’s constituency is made up of blacks, young independents, and college professors… and a handful of other self-proclaimed intellectuals who I call SNOBS!”
“I consider myself an environmentalist. I have to be, I live with my wife. She’s so green it looks like she spent the last 10 years sailing the Atlantic on a life boat.”
Discussing his prediction that Clinton will take the ‘08 Democratic nomination: “The Clinton machine will grind him down. You have to drive a stake through the heart of the Clintons. Obama doesn’t have the right stake. He’s been fiddling around for it. [Falsetto voice] ‘Where’s the stake? I can’t find it!’”
“No Country For Old Men was an absolute blood bath. They should have dedicated it to Osama bin Laden.”
“I was babysitting my grandboys. They’re 8 and 9, so we give them some slack. They were watching this show- ‘The Survivor.’ You’ve got to be a goddamn moron to watch that show. They’re all over there in Micronesia. They should be marooned over there!”
This semester, Carmen received a taker for the Carmen Challenge, introduced to a class many years ago, which consists of a three mile race, best 2-out-of-3 for chess, and best 2-out-of-3 for ping pong. The challenger was a past student that many of you know, known for his liberal tendencies: “That was 10 years ago! I’m an old man now. I’ve lost more neurons than you’ve swallowed little pink ACLU pills!”
Billy has suggested that U of I post some lectures on iTunes U to eternally capture the brilliance that is Ira Carmen. Until then, we’re all keeping our fingers crossed that he sticks around for semester, year, or even decade.
Comment by thetodd on 18 May 2008 at 9:10 pm:
I have unfortunately never had the privilege of seeing him in action. Next time I return to campus, I want to sit in on one of his lectures.
As someone who took mostly computer science and math courses, I had some good professors, but I never had any with a personality like this.
I just read his Wikipedia page, and I find his lists and dislike for all things modern interesting. Has anyone asked him if he is aware of humans’ built in cognitive bias in favor of people, places, and events that occurred during one’s childhood? As a general rule, people also underrate things from their old age. Has he adjusted his rankings to account for this bias, or does he intend for his lists to be completely subjective – only a measure of his own preference?
Comment by kofi the full of good ideas on 18 May 2008 at 10:59 pm:
What is to stop Billy from recording his lectures and posting them himself, with Ira’s permission? Ira owns the copyright to his lectures, not the university.
Comment by JM Doran on 19 May 2008 at 12:20 am:
You forgot the one where he said Arabs were animals who didn’t deserve to be civilized.
Comment by Billy Joe Mills on 19 May 2008 at 12:53 am:
Katie,
I love you even more for this post…thanks for making me laugh at 2am. <3
Kofi, loan me the camera and i’ll do it.
Comment by Augur on 19 May 2008 at 6:35 am:
The great IC typically says at the beginning of each semester that he doesn’t want anyone taping his lectures. It could be b/c he is irreverent as hell and knows how PC and reactionary people at UIUC can be.
This made my day. Lets toss up some more IC quotes, if anyone has some
Comment by Diogenes the Dog on 19 May 2008 at 9:42 am:
I was fortunate enough to be able to take Ira Carmen’s seminar course on the human genome almost seven years ago, back when one of the researchers (I want to say Craig Venter) came to campus to speak. Professor Carmen looked like he was going to have kittens when he got up to introduce the man.
This class was during the fall semester of 2001. The second tower, WTC 1, fell at 9:28 central time. At 11:00, we had class. Professor Carmen very calmly stated that he knew a lot of people were cancelling classes. He didn’t see the point in that. It wasn’t going to accomplish anything for us to skip class. This was one of the rare moments when I was in agreement with him. However, he said, if we wanted, we could start off class talking about it. It struck me years later that this was probably the most civil discussion I ever had about 9/11. For starters, it would be the only occasion I had for the next two or three years to talk to people I disagreed with without being denounced as “with the terrorists.” In addition, I wholly expected Professor Carmen to shout me down on every point. But he never did. In fact, when some of us started talking over one another and the conversation drifted toward some kind of CNN shouting match, he was the one to pull everyone back, something completely counter to my image of him up until that point.
I don’t often agree with Professor Carmen, but I have always had a great deal of respect for him. He comes of as dogmatic, but he is very thoughtful. He firmly believes in what he stands for and he has a damn good argument to back it up. And he will most certainly share it with you if you contradict him. :)
Oh! And he’s right. Women were way hotter back then.
Comment by Mandasaurus on 19 May 2008 at 6:02 pm:
Ira Carmen is amazing. I took both his lectures and one smaller called The Modern Supreme Court and loved them, despite my steadfast disagreement with Carmen on many, many topics. Some quotes from the Poli Sci notebooks I’ve moved to Boston, DC and now Chicago…
On 9/12/01 Carmen suggested that the president declare war against the murderers and those who give them aid and comfort. “This is the time to stand up. Enough already. We either have the will or we have no will.”
“You can’t drink, half of you. You’re all hopeless.” (this is relating to legislation regarding communications with terrorists, somehow, according to my brilliant notes).
“That’s what I put on my income tax returns: What does he do? he makes a pest of himself.”
Our review section was at exactly “47 minutes before the cocktail hour.”
In response to a protest outside the Lincoln Hall lecture hall: “Planes are crashing. I suggest we hold another peace demonstration led by a member of the English department.”
His response to the protest is to “just keep making noise and being ornery.”
“Politics is the art of the possible, not the art of the moral.”
“You shouldn’t be snowed when a particular person expresses a point of view.”
Carmen said that Bob Dylan “is one of my ideological arch-enemies.”
“I really think the state has a lot of nerve setting up a law that limits the use of genitals.”
During the Chief dialougue at Foellinger when protesters made noise outside his lecture hall on April 10, 2000: “This is not an institution of higher learning, I swear to God.”
“75 percent of you purport to be liberals. I love you anyway.”
And I love him too!
Comment by Matt Diller on 19 May 2008 at 8:51 pm:
Thanks for the fantastic post, Katie. Ira Carmen remains one of my two favorite professors from undergrad (he’s in a tie with John Lynn, the military history prof), and he’s also the only person who’s ever been able to make sense of constitutional law for me. I miss that man.
Comment by Augur on 20 May 2008 at 6:58 am:
Some other quotes compiled by other Carmen fans:
“Where is David Souter brandishing the flag of academic freedom?” (He did this awesome flag waving motion while yelling this.)
“Computers will be the death of us all.”
“In fact, dot dot dot.” (At this point, we were required to fill in the dot dot dots with no context.)
“If you’re Scalia, what’s the first thing you do? Lecture the other members of the Court!”
“I’m not an ACLU poodle, I’m a Guantanamo Bay pit bull!”
“It isn’t just the vagina that functions – the brain functions!”
“It’s always Ira. He’s the mythical Jew!”
“Sports is like Roe v. Wade – it never leaves the conversational agenda.”
“Even then there was a need for viagra.” – in reference to Ancient Greece
“Jesus is not responsible for this! What does Jesus know of football?”
“I know you…you want to be a lawyer…because you lust…for a judgeship.”
“You can’t dress, you can’t drink. What can you do?”
On music: “Everything in the modern era is noise, just noise.”
On computers: “They’re always asking questions, Who are you?, Who am I?. Always needing passwords…”
On champions of abortion: “Roe, Roe, Roe your boat…”
On Brennan’s jurisprudential divining technique: “First, find the right. Then, clothe the right and elevate scrutiny. Now, knock down the law.”
“Now John Marshall liked bourbon, which in my book is second only to scotch. But you wouldn’t understand that. (In falsetto to imitate students) ‘I like Busch Light!’”
“I told you, I’m a square! I’m so square!”
“Everything the Kennedy’s do is dishonest!”
“Some of us thought there would be only one Bush – but it turns out the Bushes are like Rocky movies!”
“All you youngsters want these days is to be loved – (In falsetto to imitate students) ‘I don’t wanna be loved…I just want to pass the goddamn midterm.’”
“Politics is the easy way out in life.”
“You know who has tenure? The pope has tenure. The Queen of England has tenure. So does Fidel and the communists – because they represent the people, of course (scoff). Federal judges have tenure as well – no federal judge has ever successfully been removed. And then there’s the college professors. Me. How do you like that?”
“Everything I say is impeachable…except my tenure.”
Comment by Augur on 20 May 2008 at 7:24 am:
JM Doran – Ira Carmen would never say something like that. Never. Not even in jest.
Comment by Augur on 20 May 2008 at 11:34 am:
I sent this post to Professor Carmen, and he sent the following reply:
“With all its inaccuracies, the blog is a lot of fun and I appreciate the attention from several of my superior students. I think it’s Katie who calls me a “small Jewish man.” Jewish, yes; man, yes; but small?? Hey, I may be shrinking every day, yet I’m still 5 feet 9 inches soaking wet. Thanks to everyone who participates in this grand exercise. IHC”
Comment by Sharone Mitchell on 23 May 2008 at 1:26 am:
Ira Carmen in my mind is a legend. I can’t decide what was the most important part of my Illinois career, Carmen or dollar bottles. I do know that that man taught his pants off and made Con Law I and II a breeze in law school.
Comment by Peter Pecoraro on 4 February 2009 at 5:41 pm:
I took Carmen’s “The Constitution and Civil Liberties” back in 1987. Easily one of the most brilliant teachers I ever had. I also had the privilege of taking a course taught by Jan Gorecki in the sociology department. Carmen and Gorecki were just incredible teachers. I’ll never forget Carmen. His class was the only ‘B’ grade I got in 4 years at Illinois, but I learned more from him than any other teacher I’ve ever had in my entire life. Bombastic, opinionated and a genius. Yeah, he could teach the rest of ‘em under the table effortlessly…
Comment by Joshua on 4 February 2009 at 6:07 pm:
Peter, you should drop Professor Carmen an email. He seems to enjoy hearing from his former students. I occasionally sit in on his class whenever passing through champaign. Like a good scotch, he gets better with age.
Comment by g.dowd on 10 February 2009 at 8:53 am:
I sat in professor carmens con. law class and i must admit it was one of the best classes. I went to the university of Illinois and he would have been one of the profeeors if I had taken his courses.
Comment by Joshua on 11 February 2009 at 9:44 am:
Professor Carmen is the ultimate showman. And I owe him a great deal for helping me solidify my approach to legal thinking. I think those who fundamentally disagree with Carmen get even more out of his class than ditto-head-turned-Carmen-lite’s like Billy Joe :)
Comment by Bonnie Grossman on 15 August 2009 at 4:39 pm:
I just ran across this blog and was enchanted. Now, I’ll make you all feel very young: Ira Carmen was my professor at Ball State University. I was in his American Government class the first year he taught after finishing his PhD. He was already a legend in my mind — I took him for four classes.
But the real thrill was having him come speak to one of the PR classes I was teaching a few years ago at the College of Charleston. He’s the greatest. If he ever retires, I want him to come to Charleston and just “hold court” now and then so I can listen once more and jot down all the witticisms in the margins.
Comment by Tim on 17 August 2009 at 1:03 am:
Carmen really is the real deal.
Comment by Eric Brickman on 21 August 2009 at 3:10 pm:
For some reason or another, it appears that Professor Carmen’s classes have been canceled for this semester. I do not understand why…
Comment by Eric Brickman on 24 August 2009 at 3:52 pm:
The Great Ira Carmen has retired after so many years of teaching.
He will be greatly missed.
Comment by Dennis Rendleman on 25 August 2009 at 12:42 pm:
I still have my notes from my Carmen classes and referred to them when I began teaching Con Law. The quotes posted show a much looser Carmen than the one in the 1970’s in the classroom. The fact that someone has recorded his class is also interesting as one of my vivid memories is when someone started to tape record a class and he made them stop asking what they were doing, “taping class for a sick friend”, “well, you have not asked my permission and I do not allow my classes to be recorded.” I fortunately also knew him more personally while working as an assistant to Professor Betty Glad. Having lunch w/ him and others was a hoot. My youngest just started at UIUC and I was hoping she would be able to take his class; alas.
Comment by Tim on 25 August 2009 at 10:56 pm:
I’m so bummed out about Carmen’s retirement that I’m almost beyond words. The University of Illinois may never be the same. I hope he’s doing well out there.
Comment by Joshua on 26 August 2009 at 2:42 pm:
I received correspondence from him. He did say that he and his wife are in good health. I wanted to share that to ease any fears any among us might have about his health.
Comment by Dandanthefireman on 14 December 2009 at 9:28 pm:
I too loved professor Carmen and taped almost every lecture for his Psc 350 class. The next semester I took Psc 351 and he mentioned that he did not allow his lectures to be taped. I respected his wishes and did not record any more of his lectures. Though I still had my casche of lectures which I listened to whenever I needed a fix. Unfortunatly they are with my baseball cards in a landfill somewhere. Sniff sniff.
Comment by Bryan on 14 January 2010 at 2:26 pm:
If a book was ever published that only contained Professor Carmen quotes I guarantee it would become a bestseller! I was lucky enough to take Constitutional Law II with Professor Carmen and have been provided with quotes for life!
Favorite quote:
While Discussing the Buck v Bell case Professor Carmen stopped and looked around the class. He then stated “ladies you might want to leave the room for what I’m about to say. Men, you do not have a constitutional right to spread your semen like its cream cheese on a bagel!”
Comment by Pete Pecoraro on 25 August 2010 at 2:28 pm:
Does anyone know if Carmen still lives in Champaign-Urbana? It would be great to drop him a line via email or post. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!
Pete P.
Comment by Boyd Reed on 16 December 2010 at 1:18 pm:
I took Constitutional Law with Prof. Carmen, waaaay back in the fall of 1997. His class was everything all of you have mentioned, and even more. In fact, the only textbook I’ve retained from my five years at UIUC was the one used for his class. I was fortunate to run into him many times outside of class, as my student job had an office was in 204 Lincoln. The man’s conversational range was stunning. He had an opinion on *everything* – and could back up his positions.
My best Carmen story came from the end of that semester. UIUC had a rule then (which I imagine hasn’t changed) that said you can’t take three final exams that all start within 24 hours of one another. Well, my three finals for that semester were all scheduled to start and finish in the same 24-hour window. I wasn’t worried about the other two, but ConLaw scared me a bit. So, I went to see Prof. Carmen about it. I asked him when I could reschedule the final. He gave me his classic deadpan “GTFOOH” look, and the following exchange ensued.
“Reed, are you brain-dead?”
“No, sir.”
“Then what the fuck are you worried about?”
“I just don’t want to screw up this grade.”
“I don’t talk to idiots. I talk to you. So you’ll be fine. Just show up.”
He was, as he often is, right. I got a B+ on the final. But I’m not sure I’d have done so well without that little conversation.
I seriously doubt he would be able to pick me out of a police lineup these days. However, I won’t forget the class, or the man. I hope LAS puts up an exhibit about him, somewhere in Lincoln Hall.
As for the Carmen Challenge, I’m pretty sure it would have come down to ping pong. I wish he’d have offered it while I was his student. :-)