We're experimenting with a live blog using the wonder of technology that is Google Documents to live blog tonights Democratic Debate

*apologies for the formatting problems, pulling this directly from google documents left the formatting less than ideal*

Key: BJP = Brian Pierce, J = Jon Monteith, TC = Tom Trumpinski, BJM = Billy Joe Mills, A = Augur, TT = the todd

BJP: I like this formatJ: 3 secondsJ: Romney wins MI! So does Hillary, for what it's worth (nothing).Augur: Romney wins, and stays a race. B: Thank God! A Romney victory!.A: Did they just say in collaboration with 100 black men, how do they pick who gets to be in? J: Bold prediction: Edwards will be mean...A: They still will thank everyone
TC: I'm not surprised, Romney's dad was very popular when he was governor there. A: Natalie looks like a poor mans Maria Shriver. They didn't waste much time to get to race. Hillary says the words "you know" all the time, sometimes supafast, within 1/2 a second. B: "As we know, the son of a millworker." Boy, do we.A: They are talking about the racial issues in the debate, all of them have very soft answers so far. They knew this was coming, and all three should have had a stronger answer. Edwards answer was the best, but he never seems genuine.J: Oh stop it! These three may as well be spooning onstage. Time for Johnny E. to get mean.Question for Obama - press secretary issued 4 pages of Clinton campaigns comments. Do you regret this story?A: Obama says its his responsibility to make sure they set a clear tone, and set a clear tone for his campaign, to make sure they focus on the campaign. Good enough answer, but nothing remarkable of it. A lot of hand holding and saying everyone judged on racial equality. Obama is trying to refocus on what he can do for the folks, for the people. He's trying to shift the focus from race to them, very smart.
B: Obama is putting on display why he's a non-threatening black man white people can be comfortable with. Hopefully he doesn't really mean it and is really pissed in private.
TC: Oh, good God, I was fucking poor, too, Mr. Edwards.
TC: It was white guys in SC that were kicking them out of the lunch counters, dude.
TC: The Democrats in the South were huge racists, somehow that has disappeared. Edwards makes me sick. Barack, it's not the President's job to take care of the people, it's their neighbors. This is the problem now, people are too dependent. A: Obama says "look" a lot as filler.
TC: Right, Brenda, Puff the Magic Negro.
A: Rush sometimes calls him "the Golden Negro"
TC: He's as much white as he is black, I don't see him as a racial candidate.
TC: Why not just cut out the middle-man and do it without Washington, Barack?
J: Right, but being black at all means he's gone through the "black experience," right?
TC: Nope. I had a girl friend who grew up on a missle base in Idaho. She was as dark as a Nigerian. She was missing the "black experience" completely. Ended up working for an intelligence agency--staunch Republican, pro-Bush.
B: Hillary doesn't answer question about whether she'll kick the supporter off her campaign who said the "something in the neighborhoor" comment about Obama. Makes her look dishonest and calculating. Not good.
A: Hillary never directly answers a question. Ever. Her instinct is to not answer. J: She just did! She said her campaign supporter was flat-out out of line.J: My "black experience" comment was a little tongue-in-cheek
B: "Why should I not be resentful for being forced to choose b/w the first woman candidate and the first black candidate?" What a profoundly stupid question.
TC: Man, there are times when I wish women A: want to be multiorgasmic?
had never gotten the vote. No offense, Brenda. That question was a corker. TC: But Barack, I don't want to be together. Most of the American people are freaking idiots. I want a government that's smarter than the average.
Q: Question for Edwards about piling on.
A: Edwards says they weren't pilling on, then goes back to his talking points. Sound bite coming "the promise of america..."
TC: Edwards didn't take money from any PACs? Anyone got a fact-check on that?
J: Lies! Thousands come to Nevada to gamble and that's all. J: "Bush is begging the Saudis... how pathetic!" -- I think that made her look naturally powerful. Good move. Q: Hillary -- your husband says Obama might be the nominee, and you refuse to say if you think he's ready. Doesnt that undermine the general?
A: She says there will be a unified party...shit, back to ready from day one. Mark Penn keeps winning this message war, it's a shame. She should be saying, it's about YOU, the people. Not about "ready to lead from day one."
TC: Slipping toward a recession? The misery index is 11.3, highest since 1981. Hillary, no one believes your experience. First lady doesn't count, except as a shark tank.
A: she wont acknowledge that the others are prepared, says that's for the voters to decide. Q: Obama -- He's not an operating officer
A: Obama's talking about vision, and bringing people together...he should talk about the importance of being a great communicator. "Inspire the american people to get behind the agenda for change" What's needed " sound judgement, vision for future, capacity to tap into hope and vision" He is spot on his message.
TC: The Reagan analogy. Trouble is, Reagan talked about what the people could do for themselves, Kennedy talked about what they could do for the country. Barack is talking about what the country can do for them. Bad, bad, bad.Q: greatest strenght/ weaknessObama: strength bring people together, weakness - loses shit all the timeA: I'll bet hillary's answer is obnoxious for weaknesses, like she cares too much or is a perfectionist or works her ass off to the poitn of exhaustion, edwears too. Would be smartest if clinton uses humorEdwards: fighting w/ every fiber of my being..back to mill nonsense, fighting fighting fighting...Weakness - powerful emotional response to things he seems around him, his weakness is just how much he cares. Clinton: strenght - changes, wants to make change for children, comes out of exerpience...talkeda bout her church, and how she's tried to help people (wasn't this supposed to be one strength) - weakness, impatience - pushes further and faster than people are readyA: pushing too hard --> lack fo political pragmatism (reminder of botching health care reform)
TC: Give up, Edwards, please quit fighting and get off my computer. You don't know crap about being poor. Man, I resent this guy.
J: Ugh... his anecdotes on the stump have been running together and no one can pay attention to him anymore. TC: To which are you referring, Mr. Mills?BJM: Nothing in particular, I just wanted to swear...but I am pissed about Romney, that dirty little mormon
TC: Man, this is sounding like a WOW raid in here...ssssh.
Q: The Muslim question for Obama....
Q: Obama - queston about absurd email programs
A: Obama - "Yes, I think the answer is universal health care"
TC: What's the goddam question? How do we drive the country broke in a generation?
A: Good solid answer about emails, not being responsible for NH, that american people are smart enough to know what's a dumbshit lie
J: "First of all, let me run a campaign about how I'm going to rock the system and then do totally uninspiring damage control to answer a question."
COMMERCIAL BREAK
TC: And, test pattern. Hllary looks commanding, but when she opens her mouth, boredom comes out. I just want to toss an angry housecat in Edwards' face and Obama talks like an expert, but says things that are exactly the opposite of what the country really needs.
A: First segment posted, now candidates ask 2 questions each of their fellow candidates...this could lead to a huge media event...Hillary is the meanest, i'll bet she takes advantage, would have been better if they told the candidates about this at the start of the debate so no gotcha prep timeQ: Foreign ownershipBJM: Romney just left the door wide open for Giuliani's little pet strategy...if McCain had wonA: if McCain had won, you'd win our bet, assclown. Hill seems tough talking about subprime mortagesBJM: tonight it would have been settled.TC: She's right about the financial situation. I'm impressed.
A: Romney beat him by 9 fucking points!!!!!!!!! (that's one exclam for each point, Billy)
BJM: Yea I know, it's terrible, still mccain's 30% is a good showing
TC: Mr. Edwards, we're financially secure. Of course, we're polygamists.
J: McCain had an uphill battle between the Romney legacy in MI (which Tom mentioned), bad turnout in Detroit (where he obviously would be doing the best), and a very conservative western half of the state that absolutely would favor Romney or Fuckabee.
A: "the great moral test all of us have as americans, to make certain our children have a better life than we had" great line, too bad it was said by a hack like edwards. Obama hops in talks about Kuwait, blames it on an energy policy, this point on Energy Security is so important. Mortgage industry spent a shitton on lobbying to prevent disclosure, and consumer protection -Q: Russert, poor folk feeling pinch, you voted for bankruptcy bill, do you regret it?A: he's going to say mill worker again, wait for it...Edwards: I absolutely do regret it - talks about truly universal health care, need radical transformation on energy...talked about a million new jobs...crack down on pay day lenders...raise min wage,J: Jibber jabber. Hick hick hick blah blah blah BOW OUT!!!A: Edwards -Nat min wage 9 an hour. Fuck small businesses!! - wow that made me sound like a republican.
TC: The minimum wage would increase unemployment. College tuition being paid is all right by me, as long as it was from the states involved.Q: Sen clinton, you voted for same bill. COnsumer federation said that was deathnell for opponents of bill, do you regret it.Clinton: sure, but it never became law. had some things i agreed with some i didnt, was happy it didnt become law, opposed 2005 law
A: ...but you voted for it??
Clinton: said groups sponsoring this black and brown groups, made this about how minorities are most victimized...
A: what a strong appeal to latinos, who already dont want to vote for a black guy...Obama seems sleepy so far, and she seems energized. Give him some espresso!!!
Obama: voted against that bill b/c it was backed by credit card companies - brought it back to getting rid of the dirty ratfuck lobbyists...
A: Yeah, i hate those lobbyists... A: BJM, TC, BJP, J - any comments/ predictions on Rudy's strategy in Florida?
TC: Yeah, they drive around in Porsches and scare the cats. TC: Rudy should have moved faster. He didn't need to start out playing catch-up ball. His strategy is going to doom him. Besides, people will be lining up to see NYC get smashed in Cloverfield, which is an indication of how much everyone in flyover country likes the place.Q: email question for Obama - middle class retiree, what safeguards to protect us from proposed bush tax cuts...A: would exempt mid income folks. Great line about Warren Buffet lower tax rate than secretary. Offered a million bucks to CEO who can prove pay higher tax rate than his secretary.A: I"ll make a corporation righ tnow and hire one of you fuckers to be my secretary. I'm getting fuckolaed by DC taxes. 9 percent income tax
TC: Screw that, phase out the income tax. Some of my best friends are millionaires. Some of my best are poor. none of them should be paying income tax.
A: here in reality land tom, that makes it hard to give public universities enough cash to pay guys like you to not work very hard :p
A: she just used the word Pay 9 times in one sentence. She's such a shitty repetitive communicator
TC: Right, Augur, all the Federal money that went into my teaching salary I could put in my kitchen drawer.
A: if feds weren't paying for highways and higher ed b/c no fuckin' income tax, dont you think the state would tax you more tonto?
TC: To tell the truth, I think that they should end federal support for states, federal regulation and let the states pay for federal protection from foreign invasion. It would be *more* efficient to do things on a smaller level--less bureaucracy.
A: Hil - I'd like to put 5 billion dollars to work right now too, tootsie
TC: We'd still have neighborhoods that we wouldn't need police to patrol We;'d still have extended families.
J: She is boring by nature (the Lisa Simpson candidate), but she is winning this debate.
CANDIDATES QUESTIONS - this creates GOTCHA moments
Edwards - for Obama - Obama has now passed Hillary in fundraising by prescription drugs, health care
Obama: He doesn't take money from lobbyists and pacs. if you have midlevel exec job, and is inspired by obama's message, they send him money its recorded as money from drug company. He says he alone has taken away the power of lobbyists, and he's part of why we known who is bunding money. If you're taking money and putting it together, that has to be disclosed. What he'd like tos ee is a system of public financing of campaigns.
Clinton - Wants to ask Obama to join her in doing something.
A: what if she says drug test, HA
Clinton - talked about Bush saying can enter into agreement w/ out bringing ti to approval to US congress, would continue after dubya takes office, we have to do everything we can to keep him from binding hands of next president. She introduced legislation
A: she seems really strong right now - i'm surprised by that, she could ahve used this to really go at him. Smart that she didnt' Very smart.
Clinton - wants to ask him if he'll cosponsor legislation
Obama - we can do this, kumbah yah, etc, kissy kissy Talked about phasing out
TC: Wouldn't that be enhancing the powers of the next president if Bush set a precident for not consulting the Congress?
TC: 2009 is too long to wait to lose the war. 2018 is way too long.
A: Oh shit, tom is going to go bezerker about the first amendment...(and i think he might be right)
TC: Sorry man, if it wasn't good for the drug company he works for, he wouldn't be sending it to you. People watch out for their jobs first.TC: You called it, dude. Public financing means governmental control.A: Tet, Dr. Paul got 6% in Mich. Is he in for the long haul.
TC: He's in for as long as his money holds out. Remember, he got $20 million last quarter and Rudy's boys are working for free.Q: Russert - notes all of them didnt take the pledge - smartly also brings it back to GOP candidates. McCain (BJM's boy) said might have troops there for 100 years.
TC: Like Korea for 50.Obama - NO perm bases, will end combat missions, but we'll ahve to protect embassy, and protect citizens, have to have enough to strike, cant guarantee no troop presence.Clinton - She says That's what Johnny and I said tooTC: Obama's waffling on combat missions now--leaving himself an out if there are "terrorists."
TC: Now Edwards is keeping troops stationed in Kuwait, "Just in case."
TC: Guys, they hate us because we're over there. Al Queda attacked us because of Saudi bases during Gulf War 1. You're solving nothing.
TC: Man, they screwed Obama on that last question, but Edwards managed to cut his own throat right afterwards.
COMMERCIAL BREAK
TT:I can't seem to resist the urge to try to deconstruct everything they say. I know I'm not their main audience, they're trying to appeal to a lot of people, and don't have much time to think about what they have to say, but I still can't resist
need more debate-watching experience I guess :)
Augur: Welcome to the par-tay, the todd
TC: Any clue as to what's due in the next part? Billy Joe, I expect both the Republican and Democratic conventions to be undecided when they open the doors. That's how Obama's going to end up as VP. Q: if no ROTC, no recruiting, no federal funding...will you enforce that
Clinton - yes she will, loves the troops, rah rah rah, gi bill of rights. wants to expand civilian national servie.
A: Civilian national service...
Q: Russert said top 10 dont ahve ROTC
A: did he notice all of those were private?
Obama - will also support it
A: I wonder if they are also talking about federal funding for scientific research w/ that statute, if so, it's a stupid effing statute. Govt should be able to go to the best possible researchers, ROTC or not. I think colelges should be able to reasonably limit the recruiting methods, but allow ROTC programs. I think Jon Monteith disagrees, but he's a pinko-commie, so that's not surprising, Jon?
TC: Welll, once again, Obama comes out on the side of non-freedom. Colleges should be able to decide who recruits on their campuses
A: BUllshit, how does that limit freedom?
J: OK, I'll bite. Actually, I just find it problematic that at the University of Illinois, which enforces a non-discrimination policy that includes gays, I am barred from taking a number of classes at UIUC (thank you, ROTC) because I don't want to slide my cock into a vagina. It's absurd. The best answer is to repeal DADT. TC: I absolutely agree. You're barred from those because of a Federal rule. My point exactly, Jon.
A: You can still take the ROTC classes, you just have to try not to fuck anyone in the ass while in class, is that really too much to ask?
TC: Hell yes, you seen the tight butts on those cadets?A: thats fine, then feds can decide who to give funding to. It's the spending power at issue here tom, not the criminal enforcement power, big constitutional difference
TC: See, that';s why we need to get rid of the goddamn taxes. No spending power, no hold over smaller units' rights.
Obama - talked about struggles of guys at walter reed paying for all kinds of shit they shouldnt have to pay for. Clinton - have to do everything necessary to help returning vets. She's upset about traumatic brain injury. How else should people feel about it?
TC: We need more nuclear plants. We need to put some of the material somewhere. EVeryone wants electricity, no one wants to be responsible for dealing with it.J: I bet if I spoke Arabic, they'd let me slap my cock in every guy's face in the classroom. And that's just another problem--it's not consistently applied either. Hill - talkeda bout Exelon giving obama money, and monteith being for it, claims she was against ycca mountiain. Way to remember the audience.Obama - he says he never supported yucca mountianEdwards says he's opposed tooHill - did she lie just now? or where were theyEdwards - Obama is for more nuke power, hill is agnostic, edwards says he's against it.Hill - you did vote for yucca 2xEdwards - science changes, forged documents, for years he's been saying its bad for nevada and bad for america, which is why he's opposed to more nuclear plantsQ: obama for energy bill, clinton against it, it helps nukes a lot. haven't built one in 30 years. NOw 17 companies plannign to build 29 plants based on protectiosn/ incentives in that bill, did you understand that Barackstar?Obama - i voted for it b/c its the single largest investment in clean energy we had ever seen. if we are going to deal w/ dependence on foreing oil we have to ramp up production - w/ respect to nuke energy, if we could figure out a way to do it cost effectively and safely, then they should pursue it, dont want to produce more greenhouse gasses.A: THAT might be what cost him Gore's endorsement!!
TC: I'm so proud of Illinois right now.
TC: John, you ignorant slut!
J: hahahahahaha nice Tom TC: There's a wonderful design for nuclear reactors--the French have been running them for a decade. They should fit Obama's requirements.
Hill - 2005 energy bill attacking special interest, called it lobbyists energy bill. have to break energy fund - take tax subsidies away from gas and oil, lets put to work windfall profits taxes, put big dollars behind shift to clean energy
Edwards - MIT energy intiative said in 2050 world pop goes from 6 bil to 9 bil, you could build 1 per week, wouldnt meet worlds needs. cant be done w/ just wind and solar,
TC: I agree with her to end tax subsidies for gas and oil.Edwards ---- Clinton has taken the most $$$$ from them, she's a hoebagA: she looks like she wants to bite his head off
TC: My wives give me that look when I insult someone's dress at a party.
TC: Hell, by 2050, we might all be uploaded entities. That's probably on the other side of the Singularity. Whoever that MIT guy is, he doesn't know crap about futurism.
A: edwards proposed a moratorium on coal plants...is there coal in South Carolina? If so I hope that shit bites him in the ass.
TC: There shouldn't be any more coal powered plants if they pollute. What's going on with that one down at Matoon that;'s not supposed to be creating any greenhouse gases? I'm pretty sure that China's the greatest polluter on earth.
TC: I was up in the Smokies last year. You can't see more than ten miles due to coal plants in the Ohio Valley.TT: SC isn't a coal producer. They use plenty of it, though
A: Thanks TheTodd
Q: Clinton- latinos hate blacks right, how do you feel about that
A: I'm hating Russert right now, race baiting prickola
Clinton - hugs hugs together together, all same team Obama - not a prob in Illinois, they all voted for me, NICE BIG SMILE.
TC: Good one.
Obama - great line about power of investment in early childhood education, good lines about rewarding teachers w/ higher salaries Black dads need to do more.
J: TOUGH CALL! They all voted for me over Alan Keyes in the most shamelessly straight ticket Democrat city in the country.
TC: Teachers are overpaid now. Never have a class of people been paid so much to do so little and end up giving kids an education four grades behind what my country school was in 1970. A: Question, how do US teacher salaries as compared to median income compare to salaries in other countries that score higher than us in math and science?
TC: That needs to be coupled with their abilities to teach, too, Augur. I don't know how it compares to other countries . I can send you the salary of every teacher in the state of Illinois if you like and you can check it and see what you think.
Q: Nevada leads in gun deaths. Clinton says anyone who wants to buy one should have a license, all transfers should be registered in a registry, will you try to implement it
Hill - against illegal guns (A: it's easy to be against ilelgal shit, that doesnt deal w/ new laws like registries) wants registry w/ good info about mental isntitutions, make sure info is collected and presented quickly. crack down on gun dealers, enforce laws we have on books. would reinstate assault weapons ban, police deaths going up. She said she believes in 2nd amendment, but she backed off national licensing program
Obama - provide common sense enforcement, efforts by law enforcement to obtain info to trace back guns in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers, NRA hasn't allowed that to get through, he'd work on it. 2 realities - tradition of lawful gun ownership, and important for many americans, hunt fish, teach kids to shoot, then reality of 34 chicago pub school students shot on the stret of chicago, can reconcile those makign sure its respected, but we crack down on abuses of firearms we see on thes treets
Edwards - agains tnational registration, grew up in south, everyone had guns, important to protect 2nd amendment, doesnt think epople need AKs (Sorry Ragnar), will d
TC: Bah, police deaths are going up because they're being more nervy about where they stick their noses. Police should never have better weapons or armor than the average citizen in their neighborhood. Only way for the citizens to stay safe from the government.
Commercial Break
TT: I wonder if anyone is going to read it all. If anyone sees this sentence, say something and let us know :)
TC: They're going to be reading LOLcats, Todd. We're just the sideshow.
Augur: What did Brian Williams say, I missed it?
TC: I have to say that this is fun. BTW, Todd, read "The Fork in the Road" and "Skateboarding into the Singularity" specifically of mine from last year.
A: At least we're all connecting w/ each other, that's half of the point, lovers ...
Question - read a long effing hillary quote, tees up some fear mongeringHill - said some shit about enemy, next pres has to be prepared.A: Romney's 39% is holding up
TC: Gotta drop out now, see you guys on the flip-side.
hill - part of why matters "opperating the bureacracy"...some nonsense.
A: Clear shot at obamarama
Q: ---edwards, who the fuck are you to call Musharraf?
Edwards - i said what the pres should have said, i'm john fuckin edwards bitchez - elections should be fair, secure, etc. 30 seconds Each - when did you make that decision
Clinton - we need a new beginning, having a town hall on economics tomorrow, on econmoic security, gotta get back in solutions (Way paost her 30 seconds)
Edwards - December a little over a year ago,what is cause of our lives, waht do we want to spend time doing, mid class ...
J: "One year ago (plus 30), I decided to get in this race." [referring to Hillary]
Obama - considered it w/ family, wife extraordinary, kids above average, good line, concluded he could bring country together, break otu of old arguments, bring american peopel into process of change...better than other people.

Who won:

Augur: hillary and obama pretty much tied, hillary a little stronger

BJP: Obama

J: Hillary (expectations game never fails). She definitely exceeded them. Obama definitely did not

TT: I only saw about 40 minutes, but I'd rank them similarly. Clinton > Obama >> Edwards

Thanks for reading

Labels: 2008, live blog, politics